EP5: Microsoft’s Nuclear Power Deal, Google’s NotebookLM, Port Automation Strike, and AI’s Legal Showdowns

 In Episode 5 of AI With Friends, Marlon, Adrian, and Sekou dive into the most recent and intriguing developments in AI and energy:

- Microsoft’s Bold Move into Nuclear Energy: We break down Microsoft’s groundbreaking partnership with Constellation Energy to revive the Three Mile Island nuclear plant. Find out why tech giants are turning to nuclear power to support their ever-growing data centers, driven by AI and cloud computing demands.

- Google’s NotebookLM & AI-Generated Audio Summaries: Discover how Google’s new NotebookLM feature creates lifelike audio summaries, turning your content into podcast-like conversations. We discuss the innovation and its potential impact on content consumption.

- Port Automation Debate Amid U.S. Strike Settlement: The ports strike resolution brings a sigh of relief, but automation remains the next battlefront. We analyze how this could reshape the future of U.S. logistics and labor.

- OpenAI’s Restructuring Plans: With leadership changes at OpenAI, the company considers a for-profit restructuring. We discuss what this means for the future of AI research and innovation.

- AI “Robot Lawyer” Facing Legal Consequences: The FTC cracks down on DoNotPay for misleading claims about its AI-powered legal services. We explore the case and what it signals for the broader AI industry.

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Welcome to AI With Friends, your weekly launchpad into the world of Artificial Intelligence. Hosted by Marlon Avery, a pioneer in GenAI innovation, alongside Adrian Green, VP of Engineering at LiveNation, and Sekou Doumbouya, Senior Staff Cloud Systems Engineer at Pinterest, this show is your go-to source for all things AI.

Our hosts bring diverse expertise—from AI strategy and tech innovation to industry leadership. Every week, they break down the latest AI trends, interview top experts, and simplify complex concepts for AI enthusiasts, entrepreneurs, and tech professionals alike.

Marlon, Adrian, and Sekou combine their unique perspectives, whether it’s Marlon’s collaborations with tech giants, Adrian’s leadership in global entertainment engineering, or Sekou’s cloud systems expertise. Together, they make AI insights accessible, actionable, and exciting.

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Transcript

Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. What's going on? What's going on? What's going on? What's going on, fellas? How y'all doing, man? Doing good. Doing good. Yo, yo. Doing good. What is going on here with our layout? What's happening? All right. Anyway, we'll figure that out in real time. Anyway, what's going on, fellas, man? How's the week and stuff going? Adrian, man, let's start with you. First of all, Adrian, welcome back. Thank you. Thank you. I had to look into my cousin down in Nashville during the last episode. He is wading through the devastation right now. Thank goodness he's safe and his family is. Definitely. I know it's been a lot and everything for um, you know, Florida for Tennessee and for, you know, um, North Carolina and the surrounding states and everything without this weather. And, and now we're pretty much in the eye of another one. Um, you know, it's currently kind of going across, uh, South mid Florida, you know, as well. And so, uh, so definitely, man, definitely hoping everybody is safe and no sound was, you know, able to evacuate. And if you're not able to evacuate, you know, definitely hope you, uh, you know, stuff like that remains safe and stuff there. Uh, But yeah, Sekou, what's going on, man? How are you doing? Doing good, doing good. Taking a little bit of time off of work to kind of recharge and recalibrate. But otherwise, doing all right. Yeah. Any adventurous things? You going to go north and do some snowboarding? Yeah. Well, this time I'm actually taking off more for just more mental health, just to get myself more centered and things like that, which means working on my house. That's exactly what that means. Yeah. So, yeah, that's been good. So, you know, I've had a chance to keep up with some of the things that happen in tech. And I'm looking forward to chatting with you guys about some of that today. Yeah, man. I think also, too, I think it's important to kind of reiterate, you know, how and why we got here. You know, over the last year plus, right? We've been doing these conversations just weekly by ourselves. And we've just been engaging and having conversations of just things and sharing resources and information of just some of the things that we're seeing around the field of artificial intelligence. And it was twelve months in, essentially, until we all put our heads up and was like, you know what? This may be valuable for some other people and stuff here. Because we've all definitely predicted things. We've definitely built things. All of us and everything are software engineers at heart. And so, yeah, man, I think it's important to remind folks and stuff how and why we got here. Yeah. I think a lot of our original conversations, we actually came together during almost like a renaissance phase for tech, right? So everything we're seeing is brand new to everyone. And we have so much industry experience here that we can share to be able to not just help each other navigate this future, but now I guess we can help some other folks too. Adrian, do you remember our first conversation we had around artificial intelligence and the thing we're building? Oh, my God. Oh, I remember you telling me about this grant writer that you were building, and I was blown away. I was really blown away. I hadn't gotten into AI yet. So, yeah, you were the first friend of mine that was actually, you know, not only knew about it, but was making inroads into AI. utilizing AI. So yeah, I remember that. And then Sekou, I remember a time period where we were on Slack sending prompts back and forth. Yeah. We were sending prompts. This is before you could share, you know, your prompts. We were sending screenshots and everything. Oh, yeah. Remember that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I definitely remember that. I remember putting those together. I remember there was this amazing prompt that you, like, put together. It was like... It had JSON structure around it, behaviors and all that. This is great. I still kind of build off of that today. I feel like it's still very relevant, especially with O-One Preview, where it likes to be free to give it clear section of goals and stuff like that. But yeah, I remember that before the share button existed. Yeah, that was... that was it was at the time at a friend that was working to open the eye and he kind of every now and then he would slide me some information um things that you know typically wasn't going to talk about publicly and stuff yet and so he's slimming information of you know like it can accept prompts via json and I was like explain And he sent me an example and I was like, I'll take it from here. Yes. Okay. I got it. I'll talk to you later. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, definitely. It was definitely one of those moments and everything. And so, uh, yeah, man, this has been, this has been a journey. This has been a journey. I think, uh, this journey is just going to increase. And it's definitely, it's definitely, man, we start to, uh, you know uh start to continue not only building but predicting yourself some of the things that we've been seeing you know across the landscape in here so you know guys I'm excited okay yeah so well here we go let's dive into it uh seiko kind of brought up a topic a couple weeks ago about this subject and uh we're gonna we're gonna do a little deeper dive or something here so here we go uh microsoft I bold moved into nuclear energy uh it says that microsoft did a groundbreaking partnership uh with constellation energy to revive a three mile nuclear plant um it says the tech giant was going to uh look to power on this plant to help innovation growth and everything for these things like data centers um driven by ai and cloud computing demands uh seku my friend let's start with you what are your thoughts and stuff here with uh microsoft yeah deciding they are going to use nuclear plants to help um you know kind of help some uh also carbon free carbon free power something helps when the data centers move forward yeah so it's an interesting one so being a pennsylvania resident you know we we are very familiar with three mile island and the history behind Three Mile Island. That was the site of the largest nuclear disaster that has ever happened on US soil. I think that's actually where we started. There was a movement to move away from nuclear. We thought of nuclear as dirty energy. But a lot of techniques have improved over the years. on how to handle uranium, how to safely make it so you're not cross-contaminating water and things like that with it. The centrifuge processes are different. But the major thing is essentially not just what what Microsoft is kind of like what China is doing right now. China is building nuclear plants like crazy because that is a that is the fastest way to provide a large amount of power at the cheapest rate possible. right but ever since three mile island happened uh we've had like the steady move away from nuclear nuclear energy I think you know I think the goal is for in the ai world now is to is to make it so that it just costs less to do and power consumption is a huge part of that story so for sure for sure um uh you know I know the three three mile and it's on the what the sesquihanna sesquihanna river and then uh that feeds into the chesapeake bay I believe so that's that's my hood so I hope uh you know I hope for the best thing you know I've been um looking up trying to look for um articles about from the local news there just to kind of get a beat on what the population uh feels about that yeah because uh you know as seki just said you know three mile it's fresh on it you know everyone uh around that area is very familiar with the uh three mile island there and um the last thing they want um I mean, it's for something, you know, a disaster, of course. I'm not even going to speak that into existence, of course. But, you know, it's interesting that the plant will be powering, you know, just Microsoft's initiative there. Yeah. So it makes me curious just around that area. Like if this large initiative is happening in, I mean, could you provide enough power to the town, enough to supply the town as well to maybe offset some of those energy costs too? That would be great for that to be on the roadmap. I haven't seen any details surrounding that yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if that becomes, you know, more more of an incentive to, you know, get people to adopt to or, you know, really accept that, because I'm sure people are still alive that experience, you know, the Three Mile Island. Incidents, you know, and then they saw the Chernobyl Chernobyl documentary or the biopic or the The movie on HBO, I don't know if you guys saw that miniseries. I think it was a miniseries actually, not a movie. It was pretty intense. But I'm all for alternative energy to really get us away from the carbon emissions, all of it. I really think that like a lot of the tech, the new tech that's come out, I mean, NFTs, um uh I'm sorry not just end of cheese but sorry Bitcoin mining Bitcoin mining and um AI um always has this kind of you know claws at the end of you know at the end of it saying oh yeah by the way this is an energy hog yeah yeah so mm-hmm Yeah, they mentioned that it's going to be carbon free for data centers. They said they said they expect to go operational by twenty twenty eight. But they also still have some, you know, some some hurdles on the regulatory side, everything to overcome. I mean, I think I think all this speaks towards, and what we've been talking about now, man, for just months and stuff here is, you know, if you're still on the fence of, like, is AI going to be a thing? Is it a fad? Is this a moment in time? I would argue that, yes, it is a moment in time, but it is a pivotal moment in time because, you know, you have institutions, organizations who are putting billions, you know, down, you know, this two-letter word and stuff here, you know, and stuff like that. You can, like, go full throttle. And so... you know, the more we start to like seeing, you know, different aspects of coming on, we're about to see, you know, and we want to see a surge of startups to get funded. We want to see a surge of of robotics and stuff has come into play you're about to see a surge of iot devices are just going to have an integration you know stuff with you know artificial intelligence and then you're going to need inference you know you're going to get you computing yourself like in between that and you're going to continue to needing needing all those I would imagine at least like the next five to ten years um and so microsoft is saying like hey they're trying to figure out a ways how to get ahead of this. I think you mentioned too as well, not only get ahead of this, but also cut costs on this side of things as well. Yeah. There's two fronts that are happening, right? There's a front of, hey, we need to get lots of power, but there's another component of the efficiency where you have a single GPU. We've gotten pretty good with utilization in a data center around memory and CPU. But tools are just coming online for us to be able to efficiently do sharing of actual GPUs. And then on top of that, doing it at the most efficient level. Because GPUs, because of their parallelization, works so much different than CPUs, which are, you know, um well you know they're based off of how much an individual core could actually produce or a thread could produce itself um gps are doing them all at the same exact time in their in their world so uh yeah there's a lot there's a lot yeah we were talking kind of like backstage behind scenes and stuff here of uh I think adrian brought up the conversation of and we're going to talk about a little bit later too as well like the rest of we get into this place where we're starting to plateau um and sort of play out plateau around like you know models and so the advancement of models um and so you know when that happens and it's happened that's happened with every big industry you know they've happened with internet it happened with mobile to happen with cloud and they kind of wish you kind of go past this illusion standpoint and you kind of go down term you know on the curve of adoption you know the building happens and so like right now this is kind of where we're at where the building is about to start happening and it's and it's about to be I think it's about to be a gold rush. What's above gold? Platinum rush. It's about to be a significant amount of money and stuff that's going to come into play in this up here. For sure. And you mentioned too, internet of things in your, I think you just, you just mentioned that as, you know, us seeing just as historical plateaus. I think that I hadn't really thought of it before, but now that I do recollect us talking about this, maybe previously in a conversation, Marlon, where we said that, you know, ai could really um help restart the internet of things conversation um which you don't really hear about it that much anymore but um as these models get smaller and smaller and able to run on you know potentially you know your phone and um they could run on the raspberry pi they can run on a raspberry pi mini pico whatever they're called now so yeah we were having we were having this discussion when um We were having a discussion when, dang, what's the internet speed call? DSL? No, like your phone internet. You got LTE. Oh, LTE. Yeah. What's the latest one? I'm going to go blank with this. What's the latest one, Carl? LTE. LTE is the oldest one. Mm-hmm. Five G? Yeah, five G, geez. Yeah. Yeah, so, I mean, we was having a discussion on the, you know, the battle in between, you know, to go to four G or five G and everything. And we lost that battle, you know, from a country standpoint. You know, China won that battle on the five G standpoint. But we was having a conversation of basically what five G was going to do for us. And so, you know, simply it was like, you know, four G was simply like, you know a if you think about like freeway it's like a three-way three-lane highway and it allows you know indications to move faster and everything for this three-lane highway everything so you know you got your cell phone servers you got your internet you got your you know devices at home you know you got your you know um you know you got your smart home somewhere I mean five g becomes the six-lane highway um everything and so it allows things to go first and also more things and so we saw this it started to happen we saw the you know the kind of like the rise of drones you know stuff coming to play you know drones became a little bit more commercial you know because you can you can now you kind of share you know that landscape um you know and stuff as well and then we also saw like the rise of you know things like you know wearables you know and now we're starting to see now we're starting to see smart smart glasses and things like that and so like that process repeats it repeats hardware now with integration or bloodline or artificial intelligence and so when you can solve the compute problem and you can solve the inference problem and everything now solutions um then you'll start to have at home in-house robotics where it can do you know chores you know you do your dishes and do your your laundry it's like you know things like this I mean you know I know a lot of people are kind of concerned concerned and scared of things like the iRobot. At that point, we still can't even get prompting together, so I don't see our world becoming a problem in this stuff, and so time soon. But once we solve that computing problem, and I think this is what Microsoft is trying to do, we're trying to force it, is then you allow so much surge of opportunity and solutions to come behind that because now you're not in this traffic zone of compute and waiting everything as you're trying to output solutions. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. There was, I think for years, I think we've been in a space where, you know, Hey, you have more compute you need to do. I just build a bigger data center. Right. That's how you solve like compute issues or spread yourself out at different data centers, you know, in different places around the world. That's been the way that we've done things. But the problem we have with AI is like, It's not the data centers that are the problem. It's electricity, right? You only can draw up so much electricity before you start affecting the actual grid. And they're nowhere near the potential. We have not hit the level of efficiency within AI where it's actually possible to use the data centers that are built, how they're built today. So actually, I think it was on CNBC, Jensen, the CEO of NVIDIA, was talking with, I think it was the CEO of Accenture. not century is essentially like retooling how they interact with their customers to work on the efficiency story, building the tools that are required in order to get them and stretch what they can do on this, this CPU is, but that's going to take some time. Like they're just, there's, was it, It's going to take time for, like, the big companies, the fan companies to do this, right? But remember, the fan companies, these Netflix, the Googles, the Amazon, they're huge, giant billion-dollar machines. But there's a lot of other companies that they're more like normal-sized companies than there are Amazon, right? So for them to get access to these technologies, like it's going to take a long time for them to ingest, ingest all these new things and how to like build infrastructure to actually use some of this stuff. I know. Cause we interact with some of the, like these larger organizations, like we definitely are definitely looking at it from the, what do they call it? The, It's called the iceberg effect or something like that. The Titanic, when it was going through the ocean, it saw an iceberg. It only saw the top part of the iceberg, but not the bottom part, which was huge. It ended up running into it because it was much larger than they thought. Well, the industries that are part of the top part of the iceberg is the Amazons, the fan companies that we interact with, right? But what's underneath that iceberg is all the regular companies that are in there. Small businesses, the doctor's offices, all these folks. When they need to get access to these things, because they're not really touching it just right now. They haven't figured out how to integrate that to their world. We would need to solve the efficiency and the power consumption portion of it. They need to meet. So hopefully, what's happening with Microsoft and this nuclear power plant is something that we are at least trying to figure out from the government standpoint, not just from a private side. It's strange that Microsoft's the folks who are pushing this and not the federal government to be able to find a good solution for this, while China is running circles around us because they can just press a button and create things when they want. That makes me very interested in this point. The the need of need of power the understanding of the grid and with industry number one china grid system is a lot structurally a lot better than ours and stuff currently um and then also too here's a question we talk a lot about ai ethics and how to build properly reducing Is there ever or need of a conversation around the electricity side of this? Or does GPUs handle that once they're onboarded? You mean, how does our need for electricity and ethics connect to that? Yeah, because we mentioned, they said that you can only do so much stuff here with the power side of things. And right now, it seems like we're just like, I don't think I've ever heard a conversation about you know uh proper structuring and you know alignment around the grid system it's all simply right around like we just need more compute we need more power we need more gpus and everything um but is there is there indication of overload to our grid system oh is it is that something that the gpus can you know uh kind of like filter out within their internal algorithms I think it's today how the LLMs are built around transformers is really where the optimization, if there's another paradigm that comes to be able to get similar result that doesn't require GPUs or something that's a little bit low powered. Think of the new M-Fi processors and these new types of CPUs that are coming out. that don't have the six hundred watt power. I was looking at the new the fifty series specs that are coming out. The GPUs are like it was like nine hundred watts like nine hundred watts for a GPU. This is one GPU, right? Like it's not even one of the super high end Blackwell GPUs that they're selling as a giant rack like That's insane. And the amount of users that go to that one GPU is that's, it's crazy. We already can't handle, like if everyone in California decided to get electric car, we would not have enough electricity for that and to also power homes. I mean, there's a... Forty percent of all EVs in the U.S. are in California. Like, they're already having this issue. Yeah, we're already... And it's expensive. They just went up, what's it, eight percent on PG&E over here. Like, they just put in... They just keep increasing the prices. So... Which is supposed to be the opposite. It's supposed to be the resounding decrease over time. Yeah, well, I think they're trying to, you know, increase prices results in the behavioral change of, I try to use less electricity because my bill is so high, right? But the reality is we need more ways of getting electricity that are, one, we want it to be clean, right? We don't just want to, you know, hurt our environment and make the Atlantic warmer than it is now. But yeah, these are all challenges that need to get solved. And this is really what government really is supposed to shine at. Like large scale infrastructure projects that have to cut across the entire United States. I feel like that's what we need some support in. Does this not sound like the industrial revolution all over again to some sense? It sure does. Sure does, right? Yeah. I think it's like an American story. You build things that may be destructive or really consume a lot and then just hope that it gets corrected by future humans or as intelligence goes up. My analogy is that we always build the seat belt out of the car. Yeah, exactly. Like we never build them together and stuff. And so, yeah, that's that's typically stuff, you know, how we move. So, you know, things definitely. Yeah, we may be touching on the FTC in this conversation. So that's a that's a seatbelt there that's forcing its way across the industry for sure. I'll tell you who doesn't have a seat belt, some opening eye leaders who are leaving the company. So opening eyes reportedly considering restructuring into a for-profit model while maintaining its nonprofit wings. And this comes as top leaders, leaderships including the CTO, mir maruti kind of thing announced their departures uh the restructuring could pave the way for more investors from the operation but it also reflects ongoing internal shifts as opening eye continues to balance rapper ai advancements with organization challenges there is a word for this uh it's called flattening first of all seiku man can you tell the audience what flattening is what it means um then definitely get some of your thoughts up here Yeah, so in this case, for OpenAI, what they're trying to do is essentially make it so that they can get themselves to a point where they can eventually become profitable. I was going to say eventually. And I guess one of the things that they've actually pointed out recently, whether this is true or not, this is to be determined, is that they want to move into this restructured model in order to make it so that they can't have a hostile takeover, which I don't think that's true. I feel like they're opening themselves up for that. But I think what's happening for as far as flattening, what ends up happening with industries over time is that once you get to the economy of scale, the innovation itself starts to it doesn't it doesn't go up. It kind of stays at this one point here. And what you end up seeing is this point where you're building products and services, expanding your lead. And then what ends up happening, in the case of OpenAI, there's a lot of what they've done with OI-O-O-One preview is pretty remarkable, but it is still kind of based off of very similar LLM technology behind the scenes. There are better techniques which are getting more efficiency out of it and able to do more things. It's the technology that's happening around it, but the actual, like... breakthrough that they had originally, that they're kind of propelling themselves off, that formula hasn't truly changed just yet. And what we're seeing is folks like Anthropic, you're seeing folks like even Perplexity going the route of building in reasoning and things like that, which essentially asking the LLM questions back to itself or setting up different LLMs to answer portions of a question or a tune for those types of components. But the actual underlying technology is the same. So OpenAI still has a lead, I think, when it comes to some of the actual tooling around that. but the actual breakthrough is the same that we're saying. Yeah. I, I, I don't agree. And I don't want you to go like, this is also too, for me personally, where I can't stand the, uh, the X, Y, and Z is so much better than open AI and everything. It's, like a lot of these tools are so much just similar and they're so the same um everything I believe that we're still basically in a prompt based uh you know uh universe and so right now where you know the better the prompt the better response um you know and stuff like that and then the conversion of response that you get on the on the GBT side versus the API side. I mean, those are two different worlds by itself. And so it's always kind of baffling to me when you hear somebody you know saying like oh this is so much better than this or oh opening eye they just got killed because some company released a new feature and everything this this falls on me this falls underneath the the umbrella of learn coding in my ninety minutes on youtube it's all click baby you know and so uh yeah adrian yeah um I think that you know on the topic of you know, build the tooling. Totally agree that OpenAI has, you know, they have the lead right now when it comes to their tooling. As the flattening, you know, continues or we're in that flattening stage where they're not necessarily doing anything technically different, the models are getting better just from, you know, using them more efficiently. but that's the way that they're getting better, not at its core. I think that it's intimidating because as a developer, you find yourself with ideas and ways that you would come up with to use OpenAI's backend even more efficiently than what you can get through the regular chat interface. um so as the flattening is happening I can't help but you know think that okay they're also keeping an ai an ai an eye out for uh the products that are being launched um and it would be so much easier um to launch a product within know given the resources that they have um lost launch a product within the open ai ecosystem then it would be to stand up um on your own um a lot faster um so it really is a race you know it really is like a like this this period really is um you got to really get some um that some of that gary v and you some of that hustle to really get your product out there and launched um because that idea is going to be you know could be you know, under threat if you wait for too long, for sure. Yeah. So as of right now, all of the co-founders of OpenAI has left. You know, so they've either, you know, would go to Georgia and start another institution based on their own thing, you know, consulting, like whatever it may be. You know, so as of right now, the only founding remaining member, you know, is Sam Altman. And, you know, I think the, for me, the annoying part of signaling that open AI is done for now is far from the truth. You know, I definitely think they're going to have challenges, you know, when you have individuals like, you know, Andre Kaparthi, you know, who is just one of the great minds of our days and stuff around artificial intelligence. But, you know, with that too as well, this is normal when it comes to gold rushes and big businesses and things like that that's being started out. So, for example, has anybody ever heard, does anybody know who Ronald Wayne is? You know, most people don't. Ronald Wayne was the co-founder of Apple, along with Steve Jobs and Wall Street. everything and he sold his shares you know he sold his shares everything back to steve and was for like four hundred dollars you know or something like that um it was like right before right before the launch and everything of uh you know of the uh the first product and stuff and so I mean this happens he wants he would go join like another you know institution he thought somebody else is gonna be you know larger and then you know we just don't know like you know opening up to be the leader gonna be the winner or something this microsoft you know anthropic but that separation and leaving trying to go find you know a better opportunity or something that's more in line with what you want to do and stuff not like this is normal I think all these aspects of stuff is normal. What's not normal is them potentially shifting to a for-profit model and getting fully away from the nonprofit model. But I think somebody on Twitter put up a graph about how OpenAI is structured. It's confusing. I think that process is normal. No matter what, we live in a capitalistic society. It was only a matter of time. I don't believe this notion that opening our eyes is going to forever be this gift to humanity for free. We just haven't had that. You know, this is the process and I think I don't understand why some people so many people are so surprised, you know, when this happens, you know, when, you know, companies who live in a capitalist society shift back into capitalism. Like, it's just like, you know, where we are, you know, and kind of what we do. And so I'm not saying it's right and not saying, you know, with it or against it, you know, but this is, you know, you know, who we are as Americans. You know, it just actually just occurred to me, just reminds me of, what's it, Oracle, actually. This is actually a very similar story to Oracle. Not that Oracle's founders left to go make different companies, but what ended up happening, a lot of folks that were crucial to the beginnings of Oracle's dominance left. left and became CEOs of organizations that built very similar products. And I feel like that's part of this. So the CTO of OpenAI leaving, in some ways you think, oh, well, man, how is OpenAI going to get to his next level of innovation if their CTO just left? It's more like I expect for that CTO to leave OpenAI, start another AI company that will end up being the competition that's required in order for OpenAI to get the size it needs to be. Because it's always competition also drives innovation. Yep. Right. What's the old saying? There's always... What's the old saying? There's always going to be a PC guy, there's always going to be an Apple guy? You got it. It has to be. They actually depend on each other. Right now, there's only one open AI. There are somewhat of competitors and things like that, but I would look to see what these other folks are going to be doing as they have left OpenAI with all this depth and knowledge on how to build the next set of products that are required for us to get to where we need to be. Yeah. Did Andre Carpathy, did he open source a portion of... Open ai's model and he just posted on github. I thought yeah, I think was like gbt three years or bite that yeah, I think he posted oh, I think he was on github like Some of the code and everything for gbt three and basically how to like build your own model something that can be similar And so, uh, so yeah, he's been he's been doing a lot of stuff. Um, he's been doing a lot of stuff on twitter and github I definitely been following closely um yourself he said he also he also took two of my favorite tweets um one I love one really bothered me um one I love he said that you know english is the new coding language um and so basically the need for just to know and you know write out english will be basically the understanding of the computer um and so it'll be the new syntax of the computer And then he also said, if you're not studying four hours a day, you're going to fall behind. I said, oh, wow. I need to, like, I built, I guess, I'm not sure if you, I'm not sure you consider like building, you know, you know, being a part of studying. And to me it is. And so, yeah, he said, yeah, if you're not doing four hours a day of studying, you're going to fall behind. And so that was a challenge that took seriously. Yeah. yeah yeah yeah I I too I consider building uh studying too um and that's really I think like the closed loop that's what really keeps me motivated is that like as I'm building I'm learning more you know as I'm learning more and becoming more effective um so it's you know just a shorter path from really idea to product how do you how do you this question for adrian I guess how do you how do you pick your projects would you think you want to build like um really we just like assess need um it's a small company it's been you know are you talking are you talking work projects or personal projects oh your personal projects like how do you like it's like all right I want to build this today like what it's like how do you get there It starts with just this need. What is it that I need? What is it that I want to automate? Then it's really breaking down the key pieces of that, the key features, and then testing each one. Once everyone is tested to some reliability, then you can put it together. Really the longest part, of anything that I develop is the front end. It takes forever compared to the back end. But that's typically how I start personal projects. At work, it's just really customer or really partner feedback. Assessing their needs, looking at what other competitors are doing in the marketplace and developing similar or adjacent solutions to that to really serve that need. You don't want to go off on a whole bunch of tangent. I just slept through the whole NFT era because I just really didn't think that that was going to work as effective as it was touted to be. And really, the runway was far too long to really dive into without going to my time elsewhere where it's needed. Yeah, I think the challenge is also almost like the feedback loop there, right? You do something, you put it together, you wait for your customer to give you some feedback on whether it's right. OK, I tweak, you go back through the loop again, things like that. I think this is one of the places I'm seeing AI start to really shine. It is shortening this feedback loop where you can actually hit a button, and you just go through a full continuous integration or continuous delivery loop, just going through it, getting the feedback, whether it was the right thing or not the right thing, super, super quickly. Yeah. Yeah. With everything going on with AI, what was that? What did you have me sign up for, Sekou? Replit? The Replit agency? Oh, Replit. Yeah, Replit. So I'm like, I have an A in JavaScript and probably a B to B minus in Python. And Replit is making me really want to invest so much more time into Python because, you know, really... If you're working in Python, it can do so much more than it can if you're working in a JavaScript Node.js background. Yeah. There's a lot in there. I think what I'm actually learning with some of these tools, automation and things like that, being able to like... Seeing how far I can get without actually jumping in and tweaking the code myself to make something is a really fun challenge to go through. And Replit is a really good example of doing some of that. It's a little bit expensive once you really start getting into it. You start seeing your open AI charges go up. But it's really cool. And just to kind of connect to the point you made earlier about English being almost a new coding language as itself, like the default language for and I have LLMs, um, like replica when you're using replica, that's all you're doing is just typing to it and instructing it to create what you want. And it's creating databases and doing all types of things. It's, Yeah. And that's amazing. Kick into that feedback loop. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so I was, I was thinking here, like, you know, like we did backstage, I had like a graph that show exactly what you're talking about of the why and how it's on basically the adoption of the tools and stuff that we have today. And the reason the graph is exploding so much because, um, you know like I said the everyday user you know kind of guy gets to experience and stuff and deal with it and so at first I was thinking like man can I show this graph and I kind of forgot man it's not podcast no we can we can do what we want to do here and stuff here so uh if you're listening to podcasts it's a great reason also too to uh you know hop on live and stuff with us because sometimes we might kind of dive into these things you know too as well so uh here we go uh the adoption cycle you know as well like we just kind of mentioned you know the internet and smartphone things like cloud were extremely different because your everyday person didn't have the ability to build with it you know during internet you have to be a heavily heavy i.t engineer um so to you know to build application stuff when you started same thing with a smartphone had to be you know software engineer and then cloud was a ridiculously you know uh difficult and expensive but you know with these tools like we experienced in that right now from your gemini to open your eyes to perfect cities you know your everyday consumer you know has the ability to build learn and grow with it and I think it's just a technology that we've never experienced before wow certainly not a uh like a real hockey stick like that looks I mean that's just through the roof I mean there's so many more barriers to entry of those other um two verticals there um yeah yeah that we all live through really Yeah, for those interest rates to go down. Yeah, and typically it takes years, you know, for it to kind of get back to that point of, you know, allowing like the everyday consumer to build, you know, or integrate and stuff with it. And so, you know, on the side of Gen AI, it's like it took a few months. yeah I really think that like um open ai a lot of that hockey stick um has to it has to and this is just an estimation due with the completions side of um open ai um you know uh assisted code coding assistant um right integrated with your uh editor your ide oh that's been a complete game changer um yeah you know that was a game changer before replit just build you know replic and just fly you know take you know I I got it and just go with it um the completions are really really powerful it's the there's a word for uh I think andrew you said this a long time I can't think of a word but there's a word for it it's the one of the beautiful wonderful beautiful things of the tools is understanding the gaps of what you may need or what you're trying to get to and fill in those gaps and everything, you know, through completions. And so, you know, I think that, you know, giving it like a basic prompt that you just kind of you keep building on top of me, keep writing. So there is also one of those things what makes it extremely user friendly. For sure, for sure, and I think that that's the side that really um microsoft when it comes to their integration with ai across their software suite um it seems like I haven't really used it in a word document yet um but it seems to be more on that side of the the completion side of ai yeah yeah definitely well speaking of the combination of ai completion and documents google google notebook lam is transforming uh content organization with this new ai power audio uh overviews so this feature turns uploaded content into conversations and podcast style summaries like human with human interaction It says, the innovation is getting attention for its natural back and forth style of dialogue that mimics real conversation, making it more engaging than traditional text-to-speak technology. So here, Adrian, man, start us off. What's your thoughts? It's over here with this Google Notebook LAM. I think it's amazing. That approach of, you know, we talked a lot about agents before. My first foray into that was a chat bot that I made while at Not Alive Nation that, what was I using? Langchain on the backend? to really coordinate with different agents to accomplish different tasks. And in building that project, that really blew my mind because it was like, I had never thought of an agent that was specifically, its expertise was this specific thing and then communicating with another piece of your program, which is also an agent. It was amazing. However, they really knocked the ball out of the park or they are with the approach of the agents actually auditing and communicating with one another. That's pretty mind blowing. And then for the end result to be an even better result than you would normally with just dealing with one agent or one GPT. um I think it's great um so I haven't played around with notebook lm yet but uh I'm excited to for that reason yeah I messed around with it a little bit um I mean essentially what they've done is um advanced the what we thought could happen with rag um and so you know the the the new one started off with they was heading over to PhDs and researchers for them to upload research. And basically, it was summarized via audio form about what was in the discussion. And then they kept building on top of that. And so now it's at a place where it can output a podcast debating style conversation around your content, around your research, around the information stuff that you give it. Not only that, we've seen a long time ago that know llms understand you know human behavior it understands emotions um you know it now understands dialect and all these other things and so being able to have a debating like style but even human reaction when somebody's cutting you off or they're like no no no no you know I didn't say that everything and it's kind of like having this back and forth uh you know emotional response you know which is just interesting because I think no matter what, it's like when you start to cover those type of those layering human aspects of interactions, I don't, there's nothing you can't do but to tune in. You know, I think it's, I can see a world where, and I thought, it's funny, I was on, I spoke at uh tulsa had a conference like a couple weeks ago the venture venture venture sports summit tech summit vintage sports tech summit and I was basically talking about what I'm seeing with the combination of ai and what's going to happen with sports and one of the examples that I gave that we're going to live in a world where you're going to have a podcast that is fully uh generated uh that has an ai agent talking about your favorite you know player sports team you know or you know um you know your player sports team and it's just running you know weekly um and I get it too because there was a um there was somebody in the room you know who was a publicist and it triggered that individual and it was like this is not okay okay is it going to take our information it's going to read my blogs and I'm like respectfully It already did. It already did. And I'm not saying that's right. I'm not saying that's wrong. But this is the now aspect of why we have to learn, grow, and build with it versus being on defense to this whole industry. Absolutely. And to your point, too, a podcast where two agents are debating one another, it's election season. I did not think of that one. That's a great one. That's a great one. Because you know where I'm going with it. You know exactly where I'm going with it. It would be very interesting to see, which I'm sure, I wonder if they're already doing. I wonder if they're already doing. But if there is... You know, you feed them the transcripts of your whatever opponents, speeches, policy, everything, and then also upload yours and then demo a debate before you go into it of possible responses, possible pitfalls, things like that. Um, just by reading, you know, going over this mock debate, uh, transcript that can be, that could change, uh, preparation for something like that. You're spot on. You're spot on. You're spot on because what, what was also already happening, there are companies that are using, uh, voice LLMs to take over the first phone call of the interview. and so you know so basically doing that first phone call you're just like in the field for that person you know why did you leave your last company why are you looking to transition you know tell me a little bit more about yourself like that and like these are just very very basic and everything and also kind of like scripted questions and so now there are companies that are using voice lms to handle that first foreign call and so that's exactly you know what you're alluding to as well just on the you know political side of things which Pros and cons there too. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I remember, I don't know if you guys have seen this documentary on Gore Vidal and William F. Buckley, but they used to hold, it's called Best of Enemies. And it was on Netflix for a long time, but it was a great documentary. And it really, it showed how there would be these debates, not with political arguments, um people necessarily but just with less the intelligentsia I guess of the time um that would be televised and they would be going through social issues and everything for like an hour and it was awesome um it was really really good um I don't know if I well actually I do know that it will probably get to that point where you could tune in and then have, you know, at the end of the debates, I wasn't even what was this, like, nineteen sixty or something like I wasn't around then. But I was informed just by watching the documentary of really what was going on at the time. So. I mean, Ultron ran through the internet and decided the world needed to go. So who knows? Anyway. So does Skynet. Oh, I'm not sure if you've seen the Terminator Rising or something like that on Netflix. Oh, it's great. It's a great, great show. It's one of the best Terminator movies that is like an anime ever. Oh, I've seen it, man. Yeah, it was so good, but the same thing. Terminator Zero? They went back in time. I think Terminator Zero, that's the one. They went back in time, tried to create another AI, which, you know, of course, if you don't see it the first time, tried again, went back in time to create another AI to... rival skynet and feed it the same information but do a little bit of coaching beforehand some better prompts essentially and guess what you still decided to kill everyone so yeah oh my god crazy crazy but yeah I think that notebook thing is pretty pretty interesting um I realize We were talking about this before we jumped on here about notebook LM. I hadn't realized I did use it last year or earlier this year. I actually had a session in there where I was working on my professional development in there, which is very strange. And I don't think I actually hit the generate button. So I'm not sure if we do it this one, but we should see what that looks like, what that conversation about my professional development looks like on notebook LM. Yeah. You have a whole new future awaiting you. Just hit the generate button. I don't know, but I don't want it to think that I need to go. I don't want the AI coming for me. Make you invest in a pyramid scheme. One of the examples I saw with MobikLM is that somebody uploaded their resume and created a podcast format of how great that person was off the things they built and worked on. And then it got, it brought in like additional sources and things like that, you know, to, you know, as well. And so, you know, that'd be interesting for sure. I'm gonna follow up with that. That's very interesting. I mean, that could be your new website. Just point somebody towards that and they just hit play and it just goes. It just goes. It talks about how awesome this candidate is. Let me tell you about this guy. Oh man, that's hilarious. Okay, cool. So here we go. So moving on. So here we go. The US court strike is temporarily suspended. As labor management reached a wage agreement, but automations remains as a continuous issue. With a deadline in January, the potential for port automation could be a major challenge to resolve. This unresolved issue puts the US ports behind the global standard, raising concerns about the future of port labor relations when it comes to automations. Adrian, let's start off with you again, my friend. all right well I got a little bit of history here I used to work for maersk line limited um so um I know a lot about uh the um kind of well not I mean I know quite a bit about the goings-on um of ports and and how they operate um apm terminals was here I think it's changed to vit now um that's one of the we have one of the automated ports um the u.s so when I started it was just when that started to take off it was about that was around maybe like a twenty ten um that started to take off and it was a game changer um there was a you know a lot of talk about how much more safe how how much safer it was and the um ability to track um everything track your goods efficiently really from the beginning to the end uh of delivery so you know no guessing where your container is filled with your goods it was all tracked accordingly and I'm logged with a really sophisticated system and um actually a friend of mine runs that system now which is um pretty cool he's um He's busy all the time. And I think that, you know, it's tough. It's tough because you want to... No one likes to see jobs go. No one likes that. But at the same time, if... this comes down to a competitive advantage, um, between the U S and the, and the, um, other countries around, um, the ability to turn over, um, you know, have a, have that, um, forget what the name is, but you know, when you come into a port, do what you gotta do, move the stuff on, move it off and then go that turnover, um, shortening that time period is really, um, crucial to their business model. So I would hear stories about, man, when we used to pull in from other people that were longshoremen, no, actually workers on the ship, when they used to pull in the port here, they would have all day. They would be able to get out, go into town, hang out, and come back when everything was finished. But now the turnover, you know, when I was there, it was so fast that this wasn't really a place that you could, you know, go out and come back, you know, when you pull into dock. So a lot of it's changed already. But if it comes down to a competitive advantage, I don't think that really a strike will be able to stop that ship. No pun intended. But those are my thoughts. So cool. Oh, man. I'm so conflicted. Mostly because I feel like we've seen a lot of trends where automation is introduced into workforce. Employees revolt. There's two ways that it usually ends up. If you're not a union, you have a lot more. A union has a lot more sway than individuals trying to form a union or trying to have some type of bargaining. What they do is they will shift to removing you faster. That's my fear here. The fact that they had the head of the union who was like he's a multi-millionaire the head of the union uh was part of the reason why that ended up kind of like they ended up negotiating a little bit differently because they realized that the person who's negotiating for them had bentley's and all type of things in his house like someone did like a uh uh what you call it did a google maps of his giant home Of his compound? His compound of a house. But the reality is, is that... It would have, I think it would have been more interesting if there was like a push to like put the actual workers closer to running the automation or retooling for it. Cause this is a, this is an eventual fate, right? We know how the story ends. It ends with the automation eventually getting there. You have, you know, right now, you're just reminding folks right now that the thing that they, the thing that you don't want to happen is really the right thing for them to do. That's what they're, that's what you're doing. You're revalidating that and you're going to speed up the process essentially. So, um, I do. There's a lot of work. A lot of families get impacted on those type of things. Especially, think of what happened to auto industry as they started putting those robots in the factories. There was protests against those robots. Those robots came. People were out of jobs. There's less jobs there. There are less folks that have the ability to... There are more folks that are pushed out of the ecosystem for that. Like, I feel like we need to find a better way to do that. Like, at least make it so that the robot parts are, we control the supply chain for those robot parts. We make sure that the workers have some type of connection to that process, either the maintenance or retooling for that. Because there's still labor that goes into it. It's just that the labor we have is now spread across the world to all the places that make these little, these small pieces, right? So when they talk about jobs for the future that we need to build, that is particularly the jobs that we know are going to be required even when automation, these different things come in. How do you protect folks? And you don't protect them by telling, hey, you'll do the same exact thing for the next twenty years and you'll be just fine. That's not true. So we'll see. There's enough history right now that we can lean on that folks who are there who have the short victory realize this is definitely a short victory and find ways to protect their families from automation disrupting their lives. For sure. Yeah. My concern is... They don't, they don't, they, okay. Let me be careful with my words here. My concern is the advancement of the wage increase is translation into a W. It could be potentially looked as a first down but you're already losing the game. Yeah. And so I'll do a build-up here. Just with us three, has anybody right now ever mentioned, ever said these words? Why do they only have one lane open? when you're at the store. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've all stated those words. Why do you want to have one lane open? And we were stating those words for X amount of time. And then he come the invention of self-checkout. I would imagine, too, as well, when it comes to automation and advanced technology, that the last destination that we went to, none of us, hopefully, used MapQuest to get there. No. You know, talk about texting and driving. What about, you know, us and our parents that had a full playbook in front of us trying to figure out if we should make a left or right? Yeah. Or when you had to print out the map for us. I was around for that. Right. Or you draw, you go buy a map from the gas station and draw, you know, the direction that you got the routes you got to take. Yeah. Or that funky map with the index on it. You guys ever get that map that was a book and then you, it was, I forgot what they were called, but you could get anywhere. Like, I don't know, there was a legend in the front of it and then you would just flip to that page and then you would be on the map of wherever you were going. I don't know what that was called, but that was, I used that once or twice. It wasn't the spread out crazy map that you had to unfold. It wasn't that mess. I know what you're talking about. I used to use that when I was a field engineer. I was going place to place. I had this little book. It was right before MapQuest. Before MapQuest, before TomTom. Remember TomTom? That was OG. That's what kind of started the actual automated navigating system. Tom, Tom, if you had Tom, Tom, you're fancy. You were. Yeah. But that process, you know, and then the largest one. And you know what? You know what percentage of people who were involved in agriculture before the Industrial Revolution? Oh, I know it was hot. Oh, man. I've heard that statistic before. If you know it. Yeah, it was. Ninety percent of Americans. or involved in some role of agriculture or a person's job before the Industrial Revolution. Wow. You know what the percentage is now? Ten? Two. Two percent. Wow. Two percent. Less than two percent of Americans are involved in agriculture right now. I mean, this is just what happens. And I sympathize and I understand that uh how a these things can be scary um b you know you are you you built a skill set where you're great at something and now you know you're talking about a a tool a robot or a software is about to come replace you know set skill that you've been you know mastering crafting over the last you know decade plus you know or so and I I empathize you know with all those um all those things and I I will say though like you said this is not the first and this can be nowhere near the last time that this has happened within our society I just gave you three examples you know right there and I would imagine imagine all three of those we all benefit from on the consumer side you know, but businesses and companies, they made the decision, you know, to move or advance and stuff, you know, away from these things, these stuff. So I think I think we was watching the video last week, after the podcast, Steve Jobs and stuff was meant, you know, when he got out into he was talking about how we he got rid of the floppy disk nearby called crazy, you know, within the Mac. And so it's just, you know, all these things, unfortunately, you know, they happen. And I think this is also, too, why I'm passionate about, you know, teaching any and everybody, you know, about the now artificial intelligence and how to use it, you know, and how to grow with it and deal with it, because it's going to happen with or without you. You know, and I think we're at a we're at a we're we're at a defining moment. Oh, man, we're at a defining moment right now in history. is I don't know why it's got emotional we're defining one right now in history it doesn't matter what industry you're in it doesn't matter the role you do it doesn't matter how specialized your role is how hard it is artificial intelligence will impact your world to some degree whether you like it or not you know it's just a it's a technology where it's that good I mean I can round off sixteen examples right down the top of my head of tools companies services that can be built that can wipe out organizations you know and this is just things stuff in my head I know there's somebody else that has you know the idea the infrastructure the funding the resources to kind of go ahead and build it you know make it up and we're talking about from every industry from music you know from chat bots and everything uh we're about to we were about to talk about some of the legal side of stuff here in a second and so you know this is the area where you know the time right now and the focus right now you should be focusing on how do you you know build how do you build your career your skill set with ai versus without it I said I was a um I was at a conference last week and somebody asked me about like coding and coding boot camps my thing I said I wouldn't join any school institution boot camp that are not uh teaching you how to code with coding assistance yeah like pointless you know everything and so you know I think this is this is where we are and so right now and you know I I and And there are some there are some sectors even in our country that aren't getting this information at all. You know, there's kind of like hearing the news or, you know, they heard it in passing everything. And I don't think the world understands how impactful this is about to be and what's about to happen. And, you know. It's concerning, you know, so from that standpoint, but I think the most important part is that it's going to happen and it's happening. You know, we just talk about how a full podcast can be automated. I mean, this is right now, guys, this is a part of what we do, you know, and we do it because we enjoy it. You know, and so like that, you know, EA Sports announced that they're putting together basically prompted gaming. where they're going to start allowing individuals to create their own gains, which typically have been behind a closed market, you know, and stuff. And so I mean, that is going to create different balances. And the most important part of all of this is like, you know, to mitigate the fear, you know, in this, you know, the agriculture, you know, our imagine, tons of people was just like, terrified on that part or anything, but now, it has created so many more jobs. know has created so many more jobs and everything and the same thing is going to happen you know with the insertion and building on top of you know of the foundation that we're doing right now with artificial intelligence and so you know I uh I implore everybody anybody to no matter what you're doing you know make it in the system of yours yeah because I don't it's not it may not look like it did with the farming um um losing out to the industrial revolution because You know, those farms got broken off, you know, those farms would get brought up and the families would, you know, would have like a windfall of, you know, some money, maybe some generational wealth sometimes for that, for that land. And, you know, I don't know if that's going to look the same with this, with this next revolution. Yeah, I think the same thing. Just hope that we can get folks prepared for that future. Oh, the word I was trying to say before was the iceberg effect. I think there's also the iceberg effect with this too. We see the surface level of AI, but the robotics, we combine robotics and AI. Computer vision. Computer vision. I think that's where we're actually really getting somewhere. And the things that they're doing with NVIDIA in the Omniverse, that they're doing training robotics in an actual virtual world before actually putting them into robotics to perfect them, to shorten the actual development time. But that means that's used. Actually, that was actually in the video I saw with Jensen and the CEO of Accenture. We're talking about specifically that robotics and their integration of robotics into the workforce using the Omniverse to be able to train. Yeah. Yeah, it's going to move fast. It's moving fast. Now, the EGI discussion, I think, is something different, though. Like, when are we going to get AGI? I feel like that is like, you know, it's like Elon Musk's Tesla Roadster. Like, it'll come around the same time the Roadster is going to come. Like, it's made to be excited about things and cause controversy, but not actually to, like, there's no... I don't think anyone truly wants AGI. Also, too, I quickly realized that people can't agree what the definition of AGI is. Yeah. Yeah. You know, there have been so many different definitions of it. It used to be if you can be fooled, then the fact that if it's an AI or not, then, you know, it must have some intelligence, right? Like, do you think it's a human or not? Like, you can do that now. Yeah. you know, set up a phone call, talk to someone, talk to something. I think as a human, that's an AI, like have we passed one of the key tests at that point? Yeah, but I don't know. I think, I think, cause you know, I think, um, this may be my ego talking, so whatever. Um, yeah, I think we should probably consider started doing demos. you know, some of these tools that we're always talking about. Yeah. Just to kind of flex on the world a little bit, but also just to like really education, you know, standpoint, just like really showing how easy it is to like, you know, build some new solutions, you know what I'm saying? And so like, we might build it in like a Drupal notebook and everything, but like literally a team of five can build it out to a full, you know, for production, you know, for a team of two, really, where they can put it out to, like, for production, you know, tool, service, product, or something like that. And so, yeah, I think that's something, you know, we should consider. Yeah, I think folks would be interested in that. So I'm down with it, too. Okay, cool. Something that wasn't considered, the FTC. So here we go. Do not play has agreed to play a hundred and ninety three thousand in a settlement with the FTC after it found to have false claims about its assets. AI-powered robot lawyer service. This case is part of the FTC brought a crackdown on AI companies misleading consumers. The settlement reinforces the legal expectations for AI companies to provide evidence for their claims, signaling that AI tools must meet strict standards of transparency and efficiency. Yeah. My heart goes out to all the new folks into AI who decide to test the waters to see how far they can go on behalf of all humanity. Because, you know, these folks are... What do you think is going to happen? I'm sure there's some security engineer, some legal person who did a risk analysis and said, these are a couple of different ways where you can actually be messed up with what you're doing. I said, let's go for it anyway. I feel like it's something that can only be born in Silicon Valley. Right. Yeah. It's always the first one through the door who's going to take the most bullets. They're not the first, but they're an earlier adopter of the service. Well, thank you for your service, is what I say to them. Thank you for taking that hit for the rest of us, for letting us know what not to do. Here's an interesting... you know also too I'm I I should have looked up the um the capital raise of do not pay like have they raised significant capital um you know because maybe a hundred hundred ninety thousand could be you know a bucket and stuff like you know a drop in a bucket but also too a hundred ninety three thousand could be the software engineer salary who built it yeah well Well, Do Not Pay offered like a they offered a it wasn't just legal advice. So Do Not Pay would also get you out of parking tickets. It would like cancel subscriptions. It would take care of like a lot of other stuff that other than just legal documents. And by the way, like I read the article from The Verge about it. They didn't even have a legal person on staff. Oh, no. Not even... Not a lawyer. No legal representative to really audit. These are our fellow engineers. Yeah. Oh, man. Which is, you know, the audacity, the audacity. You know, there is some solidarity there. Like I am audacious as well. And it could have been way worse. I think that the one hundred ninety three thousand is probably from one piece of what they were doing, not the entire the entire company. So they get off with a little slap on the wrist with with with that. But, you know, it takes audacity. It takes gumption. So this is really interesting, right? So usually when the FTC does things, they do things in a way that is punitive, where it will make it so the next person who tries to do it will not do it because of the size of the fine. This actually looks like they just wrote some checks to say, hey, you guys can do it as long as you guys can pay, you know, two hundred thousand dollars, which is like, you know, a lot for individual, but not for organization. I'm probably on the amount of revenue that they were able to pull in from that process. Right. So I don't think that I don't think the number is high enough for it to be. You know, it actually may be something that encourages more companies to integrate this with little small tweaks. If I'm a company like YC Combinator, my now requirement of rebuilding some type of AI-focused solution is one of your co-founders that have a legal background. Problem solved. Moving forward. Still, only two hundred thousand dollars. Still not a lot. Even in that situation. I don't know. It's still just encouraging folks to just YOLO it. Going back to what we just talked about is that legal lawyers, it's a field right now that is under fire to potentially I'm not going to say get wiped out, but now you're having tools, services that's being built every single day where people are looking to get faster, quicker, and cheaper solutions to build out documents or solution tickets or whatever it may be. I mean, this is all happening and stuff right now. And legal is one of those difficult areas. And right now, people are building solutions against it. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's interesting. I'm actually, I am impressed though. The audacity that's connected to this. That is, that's amazing. But isn't that the norm, though? Isn't that the norm where we have a big industry? It's typically somebody outside the industry that comes to innovate? Yep. That's how it always works. I mean, the music labels never creates the Spotify's, you know, Apple Music stuff of the world. It's always somebody outside the space. That's why I worry about the port things, things related to the port. Yes, these folks might agree to not use any AI or anything like that eventually. Or not AI, robotics, right? I don't see that happening. I don't see them agreeing not to do that. Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen. They'll just give you a raise. Hey, we'll just give you a raise that we will reduce later on as we remove your jobs. Right. Yeah. So, but I was just saying this, the innovation story, like it is usually someone outside of it. Who's going to be the disruptor within it. And the YC combinator is really good at taking a risk on folks that are motivated to, you know, sink or swim. I definitely feel like these do not pay. We're definitely in that category. We are either going to be very successful or we are going to go bust. Go ahead, Adrian. Oh, Zenefits. I don't know if you guys remember this company. They were called Zenefits. They were around in like And I know that because I moved to New York and our, I think benefits were through Zenefits or something like that. But Zenefits was, this story of do not pay reminds me a little bit of the Zenefits story where, you know, on the, the front of it looks one way, you know, it's like that picture of what your front end looks like versus the back end and the drawing of the horse. So they had an HR company that was supposed to have all this technical stuff going on in the background. But really, it was a real manual process with a series of forms. But, you know, on the outside, they looked like they were really innovative and like on the forefront of it. But on the back end, it was like really just kind of thrown together and not really well planned. Yeah, I remember that. There was a big thing that happened where they were not licensing themselves in the different states where they were providing benefits and things like that. They were doing some workaround. Yeah, they had, like, an automated system to, like, kind of, like, get the license done rather than actually doing it. It was, like, some, you know, click-and-go process that they put together to, like, be compliant. It was wild. Oh, man. Oh, this reminds me. Oh, it's not a great story, but, yeah. I remember a story where there was an employer who, who wanted to win like the best in their field. And what they did is they had like their head of IT write some scripts that would go ahead and enter in nominations into this thing in order to make them look like the head of the field within this. It was like, I don't know, like a best physicians magazine or best physicians of, you know, X state of New Jersey or something like that. Right. And they ended up doing this thing. You know, they got away for it for a little while until You know, that person that they asked to do it got upset. Yep. things in a different way. If you're going to do that, that person better be living like that doc that the union head is living. I mean, going back to being in the capitalistic society where we thrive of entrepreneurship. I can only imagine the phone calls. right now from set manufacturers to the ports and they're saying if we can get you these tools these automations in six months eight months twelve months or anything what dollar amount will you be open you know to paying um you know to kind of like fully automate you know this process I know these phone calls are happening right now, and they are trying to figure out, they're trying to speed up and trying to figure out how they can build very quickly to, you know, I hate to use this, like alleviate into a lot of these things, because also I can imagine this. If they get fifty percent of the work, they can be automated. I can just see them saying, OK, who wants to keep their job? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. I think the union aspect of this does make this a little bit more challenging. But yeah, I guess we'll see. We'll see. And the fact that they did not agree to the automation piece of this, this is a ticking time bomb. Yeah. Yeah. can you the only late the only latest and I don't I don't know what the final word was the only latest uh area I can think of for auto or union was able to slow down automation to a point was in hollywood with the writing Oh, yeah. Well, theirs is a little different because they are the product right now, right? So their faces, their voices were the subject to automation, right? They're going to take your likeness, use it whatever they want without you being paid for it, right? It's almost like we have the conversation around making our own AI agent. Like someone taking our agent, use it for their purposes and not actually contributing back to us in some way. So they had a little bit of a, of a upper hand because they have rights to them as demons that they don't want you signed away. But for a port worker, like you don't have the same, like you're way more replaceable. From that aspect of it, because you're doing something that's manual. We're moving every manual task. And this whole safety aspect of that, you know, that there's so many angles for them not to win this. That's why I have a lot of fear for those folks. And how do we, like, I know it's going to happen. Because they're going to say, you know what? There's so many people getting hurt with these things. We need to put a robot here. Right. Mm-hmm. And then it'll just, you know, continue to go, it'll continue to proliferate in different areas. Oh, you know, I can just see things changing. I can see them using the weather as an excuse. Yeah. There's so many different ways for them to win this conversation. You mean the companies to win the competition? Yeah, so many ways for the companies to win on this front. You have to believe, too, that any... accidents or anything that happens in the meantime, it's going to be further justified. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, I think the other part, it kind of gets me is, uh, you know, in the Bay area, we have a history around our ports and how they've changed over the years and how it has changed communities. We have a Vallejo, which is like people during the great migration. The great migration that a lot of black folks made to different parts of the United States for opportunity and also to escape Jim Crow and things like that. Getting access to good, well-paying jobs in Vallejo was like a huge reason for folks to come out here to the West Coast. And when those ports close, like... the communities were decimated, right? There was housing that was built around these different things. There was a lot of housing that was built just to support this aspect of it. And you can imagine the decimation that would happen in places that have had ports that have been open much longer. That's a great point. That's a great point, yeah. Yeah. Imagine Baltimore. What would happen to Baltimore if something like that happens, right? That's a great point. Going back to your example, what you said with the automation side, look at what happened to Detroit. Yeah. Yeah. Decimated. We had one Ford plant closed down here locally, and that was a big deal. It was a huge deal. So I can't imagine something like Detroit or like Vallejo when the whole, you know, that, you know, I can't even imagine. Yeah. I hope that whoever is the new president, that they actually are not short-sighted on this. And, you know, we can help figure out what the actual, how to navigate this in a different way than the last generation that this happened to. so you know man with those examples guys we all work build learn um in the area you know of ai every single day the connection to how one decision of closing down a car manufacturing a port and how that one decision impacted communities and cities, I've never made that connection because AI is gonna do that repeatedly in a wealth of segments of business. And I've never made that connection I've never made those two connections stuff in my head like I always knew it like I I do the connection with the you know the uh the industrial revolution and all these different things like that but something as recent you know as a city like detroit of how detroit at one point was a thriving city and literally of one decision it flipped and it's starting to come back now but you know, I think that is going to happen in so many different areas with the, with, you know, with the grounding of AI and stuff as it's starting to cement and stuff here. And it's, I ain't gonna lie, that's scary. I've made the connection stuff, you know, I've never made the connection, but now I'm making that connection stuff in my head. I've always knew it's going to challenge and disrupt and things like that. Um, but I also know the, the, the difference here is individuals have an opportunity to build with it and, and grow with it and strengthen themselves. And maybe you can start their own organizations or get promotion, you know, things like that, you know, versus where, you know, a closing of an industry, a closing of a port, a closing of a, you know, car manufacturing was just like literally, you know, you're done, you know, type of thing. And so I think the need for awareness, reeducation, you know, education, and simply the alarm that I mean, let's call this a category five when it comes to technology moving across the nation. Yeah. I think that's accurate. Yeah. I think the one benefit or the one thing we have is right now there's a lot of access to learning around some of this technology. There's still, like, NVIDIA, as long as NVIDIA still has its hold over where LLMs run, I think we're still in a place where corporations have a place to exploit in ways that, you know, aren't great. That's why it's important for the cost to go down. It's important for what Apple's trying to do is trying to get LLMs on devices. Even if it's behind their paywall or something like that, it's going to at least spark enough innovation for folks that do things on their own. But I think the difference is between this and the industrial revolution is that you as an individual have a way, you can get like a tractor. In this world, only certain people could afford a tractor. Now everyone can afford a tractor that can do something that helps them with a part of the world. It's a little different and I think this is the one time that with good programs that we can actually help folks to retool into the right future. It's just a lot of folks, they built their lives around these norms that are about to be disrupted. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, guys, I don't know about y'all, but this may be my favorite episode up until now. This is definitely great. Yeah. Adrian, to start with you, Sekou, and continue with you, Adrian, we're going to come back to you and everything to close us out here, man. We're going to use advanced voice to close us out here. Give me a scenario, an individual, you know, something, you know, personality, you know, tone, whatever it may be. We're going to use advanced voice and everything to close us out here in the episode. All right. Okay, um, We do Morgan Freeman. We'll see. As of late, I've noticed that if you say somebody's name, it immediately says, I can't do that. But let's see. Okay. Let's not do Morgan Freeman. Let's do Weathered Old British Actor. to close out the podcast on uh topics of automation and ftc regulations and new developments in open ai okay here we go so so you said you say what was the word before british you said something before british oh like weathered like old old british guy yeah hey can you close out on the podcast here I want you to talk from a old british guy standpoint the podcast name is a out with friends the host is seiku marlin and adrian and we talked about microsoft bold move into nuclear energy uh google's notebook lm turning into turning content into podcast like conversation the port automation debate amid the U.S. strike settlement, opening eyes restructuring plans, and the AI robot lawyer facing legal consequences. He closes out here on the podcast using your old man British accent. Gentlemen, as we draw this riveting episode of AI with Friends to a close, I extend my heartfelt gratitude to our esteemed hosts, Sekou, Marlon, and Adrian. Today, we traversed a landscape of technological marvels from Microsoft's bold venture into nuclear energy to the transformation of Google's Notebook LM into a veritable cornucopia of conversational content. We delved into the intricacies of port automation amidst labor strikes, explored OpenAI's restructuring plans, and even pondered the curious case of the AI robot lawyer in legal hot water. As we bid you farewell, we hope this journey through the ever-evolving world of artificial intelligence has both enlightened and inspired you. Until next time. Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm going to watch Harry Potter after this. I know. I'm going to eat some beans on toast. Oh, man. Hey, guys, if you want to follow us here, man, my name is Marlon Avery. You can follow me at I am Marlon Avery on all platforms. Sekou, man, let people know where they can find you. Yeah, you can follow me on Twitch. You can follow me on TikTok at Sekou, the wise one. And it's the number one. Adrian? All right, you can follow me on at Infamous Adrian on Twitter and at Green Lantern on TikTok. Ooh, speaking of, did y'all see they casted new Green Lantern today? What? No, I didn't hear about that. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So, Adrian, look at it real quick. Look at it real quick. This is bonus and everything. Look at it real quick. I definitely want to hear your thoughts on this because I thought it was a well, well pick. Oh, this dude. He's going to kill that, man. I like it. This dude, he's a new actor. Yeah, yeah. He's cool, man. What's your thoughts? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah Yeah. Oh, yeah, he was on the new Netflix show the new Netflix But yeah, oh man as me good he's gonna be John Stewart to us my favorite Green Lantern. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, so for the people listening They can't they cast it. I um ampere ampere I'm asking you during lantern um and so he's the individual who played on that what's the netflix so but the the one it was really popular it has a um I want to say it's like there we go rebel ridge rebel ridge that's the one yeah yeah yeah yeah so yeah he's been um kind of going viral and stuff here but they passed the helmets into the green lantern which um I thought it was a well world pick and so uh you know I think I think you'll do well we'll see what happened typically I go into all dc movies with no expectations so I can't enjoy the movie you know that's the move that's the move you will see what happens up here all right cool All right, guys. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, we're out. See you, guys. See you.